Use of Tazers.

Durgan · Use of Tazers.

Tasers are under review. This is the old cattle prod which no self respecting farmer would use on his animals. The RCMP are out of control. This has the appearance of a mafia style execution.
Durgan.

http://uxeif.notlong.com

http://uzehu.notlong.com

Tasered man's last moments
IAN BAILEY

Globe and Mail Update

November 14, 2007 at 10:18 PM EST

VANCOUVER — Astonishing video footage released yesterday shows Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski did not resist police or confront them before officers zapped him with a taser, setting off a struggle that ended in his death in the international arrivals area of Vancouver's International Airport.

The footage, shot by Victoria resident Paul Pritchard, was released to the news media yesterday and widely broadcast, providing a raw look at events that have prompted a furious debate in B.C. about the police use of tasers.

The release comes exactly a month after the incident that ended in the death of 40-year-old Mr. Dziekanski, who had come to Canada on his first-ever airplane flight to begin a new life here with his mother, who lives in Kamloops and had been eagerly awaiting his arrival.

He began acting erratically after more than 10 hours being processed — the footage picks up as he was positioning chairs and a table in a manner that caused the automatic doors to remain open. Security guards look on.

Enlarge Image
Paul Pritchard, 25, who witnessed and recorded the death of Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver International Airport, holds the video camera he used to capture the event, after a press conference at his lawyer's office in Victoria in this Nov. 1, 2007 file photo. (Deddeda Stemler/CP)

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When four Mounties arrive, they briskly move up to Mr. Dziekanski. He calls out "policia, policia" as they approach. One bystander is recorded saying that he is speaking Russian.

He appears to turn and move away from officers, putting up his hands in frustration. He appears to pick up a stapler on a counter. He is then tasered with a 50,000-volt shock, and jittering he drops, screaming in pain.

Someone yells "hit him again." He was tasered twice. Police pile on, seeking to restrain him. One officer places his knee on Mr. Dziekanski's neck.

Mr. Dziekanski went into medical distress and died there. The footage shows officers attending to him. One man in a suit checks for a pulse. It is impossible to tell from the footage whether he is dead at that point, although he appears non-responsive.

An autopsy later found no sign of drugs or alcohol in Mr. Dziekanski's system, but failed to come up with any specific cause of death.

His mother, Zofia Cisowski, had gone home to the B.C. Interior after waiting several hours to meet her son.

The footage was especially horrifying to Ms. Cisowski. Her lawyer said she had watched parts selected for her by a friend.

"She's profoundly saddened seeing her son look frightened and in need of help and wanting help," Walter Kosteckyj said in an interview shortly before he released copies of the video to the media by arrangement with Mr. Pritchard.

"She would have expected that he would have got that help from the police, but clearly he did not."

Mr. Kosteckyj said his client would not watch TV news broadcasts for a while to avoid seeing the images, although she had wanted to view them on her own terms.

"You want to be able to, if possible, see the last moments of your child's life and see what, if anything, you could do, and what could have been done."

He said she has been resigned to the release of the video. "Whether it got out now or four months from now, she knew that it was going to come out, and that's just the reality of modern life," he said.

Mr. Kosteckyj said it's too soon to comment on legal action, although he has been talking to witnesses to prepare for a planned coroner's inquest. He said people have called him from as far away as Texas to offer their comments on what they saw.

"I was expecting to see a confrontation, a discussion and things go sideways, then the tasering. That's not what you see," he said.

"The biggest thing that surprises me is there were four professional police officers there, and that the four officers showed up on the scene, [and] none of them seemed to take the time, not one of them, to go and talk to the crowd of people, the witnesses that were there and get some background on what was going on," he said.

He urged people to watch the video and draw their own conclusions.

A spokesman for the integrated homicide investigation team, which is investigating the incident, urged the public to await the coroner's inquest and consider the video in the context of evidence that will include officers explaining their conduct.

But Corporal Dale Carr, a spokesman for the police team investigating the incident, conceded that may be a futile request. "People are going to form their opinions. They are going to make their conclusions and I, unfortunately, don't expect I can control that."

Asked about the absence of attempts to defuse the situation with conversation, Cpl. Carr said, "That's part of what we are trying to get to the bottom of, what was going through these officers' minds, what did they choose, and why they chose the intervention they did."

He said the investigation is about 30 to 45 days away from completion.

Cpl. Carr said he was especially sympathetic to Ms. Cisowski despite her criticisms of the police.

"I don't want to counter what she has to say. She's a grieving mother who tried for years to get her son to come to Canada, and upon his arrival he ended up deceased. It's a tragic story, and she's entitled to her opinion."

rosco

Not quite sure what you want in the way of a reply, in a Calne forum?

In the UK, from what I've seen written, Tasers are only carried by armed police (a small percentage of the total) and are used as a later resort. They seem a good idea rather than shooting someone with a gun to me! Surprised

Advantage of UK system that I see is that only specially trained police use them: they give Tasers and guns to any old cop in Canada and the US, and often they seem to use Taser people when they can't be bothered to try anything else. And especially using it several times on the trot - I can't understand doing that.

Local lass

I think it would be a good idea if are cops carried tazers and guns.The us do but they have so much more crime than what we do here.
The big city cops should carry guns in the uk.

Durgan

Local lass

Our police here dugan is a waste of time they would sooner get you on a speeding ticket than do any real crime fighting.
it has been reported that two million crimes are not delt with.#
not sure if canada is like it but the uk is so pc minded that they are more afraid of upsetting anyone than what they are catching crime.

Bear

Could you answer a question please Durgan. I beleive in the US that it is a legal right for anyone to be able to bear arms is it the same in Canada. If so my point would be that you have to fight gun crime from the opposite direction in other words remove the guns from the public before you will be able to remove them from the police.

rosco

As I recall, Canada is different from the US and you do not have the same right to bear arms.

Having visited both countries, I felt a lot safer in Canada than US as a result of this, I am surprised if Durgan thinks it is as bad as US.

Durgan

rosco

Erm, ok: I understand what you are saying, but may I ask what relevance an article about Canadian police has to a Calne forum? Shocked

Durgan

rosco

Durgan

>What does get my curiosity going is how come this person was waiting 10 hours to be processed, and no-one else managed to deal with the situation before the police arrived. That seems more important to clarify in this story to me.<

The man ( Polish) didn't speak English. The people at the airport ignored him. He was in secure no-mans land. The area between immigration and where one goes through customs at all international airports. Why he was not approached and addressed is not explained as yet.

The Police in this country has often been accused of misconduct,and always get off due to the closing of ranks. Some of the cases have been so blantant that they defy credulity. There has been ineffectual attempts to curb this practice, without successs.

This episode has been one of the few cases caught on camera, otherwise it would be simply a minor mention in the newspaper. The video speaks for itself. Now the RCMP have to work a spin. It will be intereting to see how it unfolds.

Justice is alway of interest to me, and abuse of authority in particular. With the Internet the information of officialdom cannot be simply broadcast. It can now be discussed and dissected.

Durgan · The Investigation is proceeding ( Read Spin or Cover-up).

For what reasons are the RCMP wanting to go to Poland and seek his medical and criminal history?

http://oobigh.notlong.com

It serves no useful purpose! The ONLY purpose that it could serve is to discredit the man in the eyes of the Canadian Public! to discredit the victim is to justify an inexcusable action on the part of those officers! When will our politicians learn that no thing they can do or say changes the REALITY of the video! You saw it! I saw it! 25 seconds to death! Now they want to discredit the man? Are those in charge not now flying their colours?

Surely this is the lowest of the lowest endeauvors.

But there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Poland has laws to the effect that people can be charged in Poland if one of their citizens is abused in another country. It would be entertaining to say the least if the four horseman were tried in a Polsih court.

I also read the BBC Daily On-line.

Durgan · This TASER event is gettin wide-spread coverge in NA.

http://eyohk.notlong.com Police in action, using a taser.

Driver Tased For Asking Officer Why He Was Stopped
Man who refused to sign speeding ticket because he did not understand what it was is tased and arrested by officer who then refused to read him his rights.

http://infowars.net/articles/november2007/211107Tased.htm)

The video was obtained using "Access to information" and the driver posted it on UTube.

http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/ Cover-up by taser manufacture.
Pam Schreiner, who worked for the Arizona-based maker of the electric-shock weapons in 2004, says she was threatened and intimidated, including her home being shot at, after she saw company officials intentionally shredding Taser injury reports during a legal proceeding, according to court documents.

rosco

Durgan,

are you against Taser, RMP or both? I'm a bit confused about the purpose of this thread for you.

Durgan

rosco

I'm against arming the police as a matter of course, and much prefer the UK model in that respect, where armed police are a highly trained specialist unit.
My encounters with armed police always make me feel a bit nervous, it's hard to feel comfortable in their presence (both in the UK and abroad).

I'm sure I've read somewhere that more officers in the US are killed by their own guns than by others firing at them, I wonder if the same in Canada. Where officers have them as the normal issue, I am sure they become blasé about it and standards will slip.

Taser itself should be used as a later resort, not the first thing to try. I 'm not sure that you need a full investigation every time one is used, but you certainly shouldn't zap someone just because they are a bit argumentative or annoying - that seems to be how they are seen and used in North America.

The company itself suffers from having a monopoly in the market (with fairly close links to US government I wouldn't be surprised) and I think not unsurprising that they might not be forthcoming with all evidence against them.

If the choice is between using Taser or shooting someone, it's got to be Taser as the better choice: I don't think it is dangerous in itself from what's been published so far.

Durgan

This was the first cop. The Magna Carta of Policing.
Durgan.

Sir Robert Peel's Principles of Good Policing (1829)The Nine Principles of Policing

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.

3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion; but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour; and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.

9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

Durgan

rosco

Durgan

rosco

Use of Tazers.

The Investigation is proceeding ( Read Spin or Cover-up).

This TASER event is gettin wide-spread coverge in NA.