SMOKING AND THE N.H.S

Top Dog · SMOKING AND THE N.H.S

Chepfer
Corporal

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 297
Location: Calne
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:45 am Post subject:

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I agree rosco, this principle can be applied at a higher level too.

I pay a large part of my taxes to the NHS to provide care and assistance if ever it's needed. Though fact is i have not visisted a doctors or hospital for years ... but i dont resent others using "MY" money to get themselves better, if it is for the greater good of the population.

What i do resent however " and i'm going to rile some of you" is people who smoke and then go to hospital with cancer or whatever nasty diesease they have inflicted upon themselves, through there "own neglect" and then expect "me" to pay for them to get help.

Perhaps this is for another discussion moderator ?

kathy27

Sorry i have to disagree. My cousin died of cancer a few years back at the age of 42, he NEVER smoked NEVER drank and NEVER took drugs, cancer isnt something that just targets people that smoke!
Yes i do smoke (i wish i didnt, but even my doc has said it not the right time for me to stop....my lifestyle!) and im over weight, on a visit to the RUH last month (nothing to do with smoking or my weight! just something over 80% of women will get!) i had a doctor that wouldn't give me the op's that i needed because i was over weight and smoked, (im sure if my leg was hanging off he would have said the same)
After a phone call to the RUH i saw another doctor that was more than happy to give me the op's.
Also my dad is 81 and has smoked since he was 13, maybe we blame smoking for a little too much, its easier than looking for another cause to illness.

GTB

Smoking may not be the be-all and end-all when it comes to disease but it certainly gets close. It is the major cause of heart disease, lung problems, circulation problems and so on. Mix smoking in with a hedonistic lifestyle of fatty foods, obesity, alcohol, drugs and stress and humanity is going to hell in a hand cart!! Laughing

Evolution can be a strange thing. We have evolved from single celled organisms over millions of years into a so-called intelligent sentient being that now decides to pump all manner of crap into our system in the names of luxury, recreation and boredom. Perhaps the biggest threat to humanity is actually ourselves.

kathy27

But what about all the fumes from lorries ,buses and cars, not to mention factories?
But if we are talking about taxes paying for treatment for people that do smoke, we pay taxes aswell and are heavily taxed on our fags on top of that!

GTB

The argument regarding car/lorry fumes is a valid one but also includes smoking where it is inhaled passively from inside of buildings by people who have no say in the matter. Thankfully, we no longer have to breathe other peoples smoke in pubs or restaurants. Smokers may pay a lot of tax on their habit but why not, they will be using the NHS a lot more on average than a non-smoker.

Local lass

CHEPFER WROTE
What i do resent however " and i'm going to rile some of you" is people who smoke and then go to hospital with cancer or whatever nasty diesease they have inflicted upon themselves, through there "own neglect" and then expect "me" to pay for them to get help.

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so basicaly nasty diesese that they have inflicted on there selves...

so judging from what you have wrote if its self inflicted then they shouldnt be treated??

mmmm lets see..

some one who has had unprotected sex got a case of the claps
shouldnt be treated as its self inflicted.

someone with aids/hiv??

someone who played sport and is now riddled with aurtheritus???

person who has slashed there wrists

personaly for me the people who shouldnt get treated are the people who come over here just to use are nhs.from are tax money.
all the reffugees ,people who do not pay into the nhs there the ones who shouldnt get treated .
are nhs is under calapse .

not the people who smoke.
you could have a person who has worked hard all there life ,but who smokes and is a little over wieght let him get treated.

kathy27

GTB

Why stop at refugees? Why not stop treatment for people who don't pay a full National Insurance stamp or havn't worked for years for whatever reason? The reason we still treat people on the NHS is because it is open to all (which seems to be a thorn in some peoples side) and also the Hippocratic Oath - to care for a person no matter how they became ill.

There are many sides of the argument about how far we should treat someone who is continuing to harm themselves purposely (smoking, drugs, etc) when the scarce NHS resources could be spent elsewhere on a more deserving person - deciding who that may be would be tantamount to playing god I would imagine.

One such example would be that a young person in their 20's has died in an accident and was carrying a donor card. This person's heart is a perfect match for two people both aged 45 - one is a non-smoking man who led a fairly healthy lifestyle the other is a person who regularly smokes 20+ cigarettes a day and cannot give up no matter what the circumstaces. Who would be the more deserving recipient of this heart given the resources in the NHS?

Clunk

One thing that is more dangerous then smoking, is trying to tell me to stop. Laughing

I smoke. I am not proud of smoking, but then I do not have any other vices.
I don't drink.
Never taken drugs.
I don't even watch telly.
My only exercise is spending a few hours a week exploring old mines.
My last doctors visit was in 2003 when I crushed my foot in an industrial accident.

Did you guys know that when the lottery license was available, Richard Branson applied for it? There was to be no profit to him for it, and any profit after overheads would of been injected into the nhs, with the possibility of having national insurance reduced?

But no, the government give the license to a company who build an upside down wok on the isle of dog's. Evil or Very Mad

Chepfer

So what's being said is that perhaps we should do less sports as they are bad for us and smoke more, as this would reduce numbers of people using the NHS - or am i completely getting this wrong?

Confused

kathy27

No chepfer, i think the point being made is no matter what you do, smoke or not exercise or not, you can be ill or not!
Just because people smoke it doesn't mean there are more likely to be ill.
Just because people play sport it doesn't mean they are more likely to break a leg!

GTB

kathy27

The point i was trying to make was just because someone smokes it doesn't mean they will get cancer or need more treatment then someone that doesn't.
example.... My dad has smoked since he was 12 years old.....he is now 81 and other than a hip replacement (nothing to do with his smoking, he fell over in the garden!) he is fine!

Also just because someone plays sports it does'nt mean they are going to break a leg.....
Last night i was going to pick up my daughter and laying on the pavement was a women who had fallen off the path, she had hurt her leg....... she wasn't playing a sport!

My point is illness isnt bothered who it attacks, smokers non-smokers its not bothered.
We all pay our taxes and all should be treated the same, if the need arises!

GTB

I do see what you are saying - illness attacks with an indiscriminate eye.

I do, however, stand by my opinion that it is a waste of scarce NHS funds to do major heart surgery on somebody who is adamant that they cannot give up smoking - it would be like changing the oil but re-using the old oil filter (not a very sentimental analogy but you get my drift). There is enough resources being put forward to get people of the deadly weed and certainly enough information to try and stop them taking it up in the first place but some people won't listen until it's too late. I cannot believe my eyes when you see these school kids walking through Calne with a cigarette in their hands trying to look all grown up. Silly sods!! Rolling Eyes

kathy27

I too can see your point, it makes you wonder how these kids get their fags in the first place, (you have to be 18 to buy them now!) Rolling Eyes

I guess its the same as George Best..... had a transplant but wouldnt give up the drink!

I only started smoking about 6 years ago, the doctor told me my mum only had a limited time left, i was upset and someone offered me a fag........hooked!!
I would like to give up, but my doctor has told me its not the right time for me at the min, too many stresses in my life!!

Geddi

Smoking - YUK! Don't get me started, I am an EX smoker and worse nightmare of smokers.

Here's a few things many people are aware of but forget:

(i) tax on cigarettes is high precisely BECAUSE of the massive amount of harm it does.
(ii) the effects of smoking are damaging to more than those who smoke.
(iii) smoking is addictive and nicotine is an addictive drug which is incredibly difficult to get away from.
(iv) we ALL have vices of one form or another. Smoking, drinking, driving larger cars than we need, eating too much, etc..

There are more but it's getting dull listing them..

GTB - Doctors no longer take the Hippocratic oath, instead they seem to swear an allegiance to the pHarmaceutical companies to traffic their toxic potions and noxious lotions and all, regardless of consequences and whatever the side effects.

There are a lot of things available for people trying to quit smoking but this is primarily missing out the point of WHY people smoke in the first instance... you have to assist people with other parts of their lives other than simply to break their habits or else something else will fill the gap.

I smoked when I was 6 or 7 after stealing cigarettes from my mother's packet. When she gave up when I was about 8 or 9 I had withdrawals and I stole money to buy them. Packs of five with my dinner money instead of lunch! Nuts I know, now. Then, I was addicted and knew no better. Took me most of my life to conquer them and I am a strong willed person.

The tobacco companies should be crushed like an empty cig packet. Perhaps take the sales away from the shops and only allow adults to get them on prescription until they are weaned off and then a complete ban.

The USA threatened crippling sanctions on Thailand if the Thais banned cigarette advertising. This is outrageous behaviour. In Colombia the US air force sprays toxic sprays onto Coca plantations because of the so called war on drugs, yet imagine the outcry if Thailand were to do likewise in the fields of North Carolina and Virginia? Tobacco is a foul commodity to sell, especially the chemically drenched nasty stuff which finds its merry way into cigarettes in the developing countries of the world.

It's that dreadful thing called capitalism all over again. Where there are vast profits to be made off the backs of people's suffering, the vast profits win!

Geddi

Whoops. I ranted on a tad there in the wrong direction.

NHS and smoking - so the argument goes: tax on tobacco products in this country pays for the NHS entirely and more besides.

Personally, I seriously doubt this. It would be good to get accurate figures.

kathy27

Geddi, on your list of vices..... my only vice is i smoke! so what, i buy my own fags, even my doctor doesn't think i should stop at the min, (my life has too many stresses) and to be honest i dont think i want to (i might kill someone!)
I dont drink.... yes i do drive a big car, but with a family of 6 and a disabled father and 5 dogs i need a big car! and as for eatting too much, Laughing

When starting my diet, i was told i dont eat enough (i can go days without feeling eating or hungry!)
Back to doctors, when i was a nurse, the amount of doctors and nurses that all went outside for a fag far out-weighed the ones that didnt smoke!

Geddi

Kathy ~ when my gran was carrying my mum, Drs believed that smoking was no bad thing even in pregnancy as it led to smaller babies which were easier to deliver. Now of course we know different. Of course, excessively large babies are not good either...

Smoking in bed is either dangerous or you need lubricant...

GTB

kathy27

Geddi..... Laughing

not sure how old you think i am, but i was talking of less than 5 yrs ago when i was a nurse, and i still know alot of doc's that do smoke although have to tell patients it bad for them!

Geddi

Kathy, I am guessing you might be about 28 cos of your name here, but I also know that when I was dating a GP last year, she told me that smoking was out of style for most of the medical staff she knew as restrictions were so tight round work places now it was harder work trying to keep the bad habit going, so they're giving up in droves.

If I am wrong about your age Kathy, my apologies in advance. I actually have no idea really..

kathy27

No geddi, you have made me very happy, 27 is my door number Laughing

im the big 40 now Laughing