Proposed Traveller's Site, Calne. Why not?

Geddi · Proposed Traveller's Site, Calne. Why not?

I welcome the idea of a traveller's site in Calne. Where else shall we send them? Shall we keep on pushing them from pillar to post? Shall we simply ban the life style?

At least look at the issue from a financial perspective: The alternative is far worse! Moving travellers on, even from land which they own, costs us all £millions. Quite literally £millions! This is one of the reasons why these sites are being looked at to provide no excuse for travellers in the area to squat on other land.

I ask you also, replace the word gypsy with any of the following words:

Black
Disabled
Asian
Irish
Welsh
Tall
Fat
Thin
Catholic

I imagine you catch my drift now?

Gypsies are an ethnic type and as such are protected against racial slurs by law. There are many other types of traveller (too many and too complex to go into here) ALL of whom are a mixed bag of individuals who are as good, bad and ugly as the rest of us, and no more.

Chepfer

"Gypsies are an ethnic type and as such are protected against racial slurs by law"

Like you said "SOME" gypsies are an ethnic type. Romany for instance .

What i don't understand is this ..... Gypsies are technically travellers .... they move from one place to another ... it's their lifestyle and it's what they want to be doing .... Correct ?

So why are the government giving every District council £250,000.00 to set up "permanant" gypsy sites ?

Surely this goes against the very nature of "Travellers" ?.

If Gypsies "want" to be part of general society, then surley the best thing to do would be to get a house either rented or bought and live in a town or wherever, as they wanted !.

Kizzy

I get annoyed as they are being "given" the land to set up a permanent home on (and as Chepfer says is a bit contradictory of the term travellers) - yet I cannot buy an affordable house in my area as I am not classed as "needing" one as they all go through housing associations and councils but I cannot afford one on my own - I don't see them giving me a house or land for me to set up home so I can settle down - I'm in a private rent (still not entitled for housing association as I work and don't have dependants) and I cannot not make it mine!

Chepfer

It's pretty backwards Kizzy, isn't it !. The government seem to be more interested in the minority, than the majority, in most cases at the moment !.

I know Kizz get a caravan ..... get pregnant, get divorced if your married, make sure you have a surname ending in ski ..... there that should sort you out, in fact you 'd be richer than me with all those attributes and you wouldn't have to work either ! Grrrrrrrr.

Local lass

so why not a site in calne?

lower house prices,

increased crime

sites are eye sores

why should i pay tax for them to be given a site ?

like chepfer said traverlers are ment to move on and keep traverling if they want to stop get a house.

they are a law unto there self

traverlers give bad name to the true gypsies.

Calne has a nasty habit of being dumped on.Going back 20 years calne had a real nasty reputation,which it is slowly improving,Admit i dont like all the new builts ,but calne is on its way of becoming a great town and communety.having gypsies here would just set it back.

as for it being racist for not wanting a site here thats wrong.
i dont mind muslims but i wouldnt want to live in there community.just like i dont want gypsies living in mine.

pimpdriver

where has the other post gone?

Has it been "moderated" out?

Gypsies - people who go round in small wooden horse drawn caravans and sell pegs.

Travellers - people who drive untaxed transit vans, double cab pickups and leave a pile of gas bottles, sofas and excrement when they leave somewhere, as well as flouting planning laws.

If I bought a field off a local farmer, then wanted to build a house on it, the council wouldn't let me.

None of the groups mentioned by Geddi (black, muslim, irish, tall, catholic etc) routinely leave places in an absolute disgusting mess when they leave.

GTB

Steve B

Local lass

well said steve

Geddi

Steveb: actually you do live within 20 miles of at least 2 such sites, and are regularly within five miles of many travellers, especially at this time of year.

I know of gorjas who leave a scummy horrible mess wherever they live or leave from as well. Have you seen the state of the town centre on Sunday morning? Have you looked downstream on the river Marden lately? It is foul with litter and all kinds of filth.

As I say, travellers - whatever their ethnic or social back ground - come in all shapes and sizes and yes, they do have rights in this country.

While I am very aware of the sensitivity of this issue, I am also aware of how easy it is to move the target slightly, incrementally, and go from calling one group of people names (as if we know each and every one of them and they are ALL alike, e.g. Scots = tight; Irish = thick; Jews = mean and sneaky; Germans = no sense of humour; Blacks = well hung; etc)

If we label one group, we might as well label ALL. As we don't know all, it's a kind of madness. Prejudice. Prejudgement. Bigotry.

We all have it within us and yet mostly, we can recognize and tame it. Very dangerous to allow it to escape unnoticed.

Here's a thought for all those who moan that ".. they get land free .." etc. Why not join them? Why not sell your house and go on the road? Why not take advantage of the laws which protect diversity and cultural heritage and adopt the lifestyle of which you are envious? Choice is a great thing.

Local lass

Both proposed sites in Calne does not offer the criteria what they want. That's why not.

Bear · Re: Proposed Traveller's Site, Calne. Why not?

Geddi

Sorry Bear, did I miss you out?

Block67

- you forgot the word "Geddi" as well! LOL! Big Smile

Bear, you didn't expect white, british, protestant and hetrosexual to be included in his list did you??? It wouldn't be politically correct now would it, especially in this country!

Block67

Proposed travellers site. Why not? - because the majority does not want them here on a semi permanent basis, and, guess what, democracy is alive and well, Calne isn't having any! Thumb Left

Bear

Bear

Block67

Religion aside (I am not religious), you are not alone Bear!

Geddi

Bear: I included those minorities which HAVE been subjected to bigoted abuse in this country. As you are ".. a good catholic boy .." then you are one of the members who were abused for their choices in how to worship their god.

I did not include heterosexual as I am not aware of any bias against heterosexuals. If you know of any or have experienced any, please do share. I know many gay people and have been around many more, yet I have not ever heard anything said which implies gays are superior to straights. I also know loads of straight people and I have heard so much derogatory terms used to refer to gay people.

I know people who claim they are not racist and yet they use racist, inflammatory language and claim it's ok as they use it to their 'friends' who are black or Indian or Pakistani. Hmm.. I have yet to hear it.

Bear

Sorry Geddi but I am afraid we are all the recipients of discrimination in all its many forms whether in be for reasons of race on the one hand or perhaps the colour of ones hair on the other. I myself would find it very hard to ever make friends with a scouser or even bring myself to enter a conversation with one this is due mostly to my upbringing in Manchester and if you ask most Liverpudlians they will understand this. An example I often use to make this point is when you enter a ublic building perhaps somewhere you have never been before and you see someone you have never met before and even though you know nothing about this person you take an instant dislike to them why is this? I do not know perhaps if there are any budding anthropologists out there then they might be able to explain it.
You also ask about discrimination against some of those groups I mentioned well the obvious one is the religious group because for many cenuries the protestant faith was persecuted for example the Hugenots in France and any one slightly deviating from the Roman Catholic religion in the dark days of the Spanish Inquisition.
Also in our modern society I find it quite galling that in my proffession there are groups set up for Black, Asian and Gay/Lesbian workers and yet at a recent annual union conference when one brave sole asked for permission to set up a white/hetrosexual group within our profession the p.c. brigade got on there high horse and rode all over them. In conclusion there are a lot of well meaning people in this country who are so adamant that we remain p.c. that they are driving the ordinary working man into the arms of the right wing extremists. Do you think that is a good idea or not?

Block67

Well put Bear, it will be interesting to see how mr.PC comes back to you on this one Big Smile

Geddi

Bear: I am also from Gt Manchester, Salford in fact, so I know of the ancient animosity between scousers and Mancs. I am also aware of the idea that kin comes before all and loyalty spirals outwards from this place, and therefore by extension includes the same race eventually.

I am also aware that there are some, shall I be very generous here and call them 'misguided idiots' who think they are very 'right on' when they shout down the call for true equality such as you describe. I have experienced this for myself years ago. I attended a very green festival and I wore a Tshirt with an England emblem on - three lions and a shield. I was accosted and assailed by some young woman who was insisting I must be the devil's own spawn/BNP/Neo Nazi for wearing such a thing. I tried to reason with her that I was wearing this thing as I was very poor at that time and had actually rescued it from a rag bank from whence it was destined to be shredded. She wanted none of it and ranted on and on. I glanced around and began to get annoyed. I imagine those who know me just through these pages here are already amused, ME being accused of being racist / white nationalist, which is what was essentially happening. I was not amused and finally told her so. I also told her that she ought to be very careful about what she said and to whom. I saw Irish tricolour flags and Jamaican flags and a whole load of others which were cool to fly, yet me, with my own nations flag, in the country where the event was taking place, was accused of being racist.

I have since then been more acutely aware of who I am with regard to country. I am English. She was wrong.

There is another point here. The point of intent. I speak with people who use nasty language with deliberate intention of being crass and offensive. I find that offensive if it is aimed at something about the person they can not choose. Below are things we can choose -

Religion, politics, attitude, life style, footie team, hair style (to a degree - I am bald so severely limited) clothes, etc.. ALL of these are fair game for derision and comment.

Things we can not choose include:

Sexuality, sex, colour, birth place, height, stature, size of ears/boobs/nose, etc. and should only be considered to be fair game by scum bags and bigots.

Block67

Local lass

Chatting to a lady yesterday who is a school teacher in surrey .and she was telling us how a irrate father came in and had a go at her because she asked this child to remove a band .
what she didnt realise was that it was part of there religion.
when she asked the boy what the significance is the band to the religion he told her he didnt know but daddy said never to take it off.
in pe all children due to health and safty are not allowed to wear any jewerly .apart when it is for religion yet a english child would not be alowed to wear the cross Evil Mind

i hate the way some people force a religion on there kids.
i even know someone who kicked there own duaghter out at 16 simply because she wouldnt commit to being a jehonah witness.
children should learn all religions then make a choise of what or who to follow if any when they are old enough to understand them.

Geddi

Block: It's not my opinion that religion is a choice, it is a fact.

Block67

Ged,

Geddi

Block: I take your point that some people swallow dogma, hook line and sinker, and that family pressures can be almost irresistible. It is still their choice to stay that way as adults or to decide they are not interested and to change. Any belief system is a matter of choice.

I even believe that taste in foods is a matter of choice, to a great extent, though I can not claim this as fact, as opposed to food allergy or intollerance which is a clinical condition. Vegetarians choose to be so, omnivores alike choose. Coeliacs do not choose to react to gluten.

I know what you mean and am not trying to simply gainsay here. As adults, we have choices we'd rather not make and it is usually easier to go along with what has gone before, especially if family places pressure to do so. This does not mean we are not able to choose, simply that we choose to take the easier, most obvious option.

Block67

Putting this back on track, Proposed travellers site. Why not? - because the majority does not want them here on a semi permanent basis, and, guess what, democracy is alive and well, Calne isn't having any!
I'd say this thread has run it's course and is diversifying too much now. Big Smile

Geddi

Block: it's not democracy but beauracracy which means the sites looked at will not be chosen. There are now a load of private sites to be considered.

Block67

good, time for a new thread then............................

Chepfer

The end.

Proposed Traveller's Site, Calne. Why not?

Re: Proposed Traveller's Site, Calne. Why not?